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#021 – You have 8 minutes to pack. 8 minutes to escape every abuse imaginable. 8 minutes to rescue your children. 8 minutes to change the direction of your life.

8 minutes to avoid being the next tragic headline on the 5 o’clock news.

What do you do?

Author, speaker, and survivor April Giauque (like “Juke”) shares her journey to becoming a victim with no voice to a victor who uses her voice to spread light and hope.

You don’t have to be in her shoes or walk the same journey to find power and truth in the principles that drove her journey.

You just need to listen and learn, as I did, from this soul-piercing conversation.

Tune in to discover…

  • Why you can never run from your past.
  • The right questions to ask before entering into a partnership of any kind.
  • How to slay the shadows that haunt you once and for all.
  • What it means to truly support someone in their journey.
  • And so much more.

Thank you for listening and please share the link today.

Always Forward,


Resources Mentioned:

Joe Pomeroy 0:04

Have you ever felt trapped, controlled, like someone was trying to convince you that you couldn't survive life without them? Two time author April Giauque shares her powerful story of being trapped in an abusive relationship and the steps that she took to take control of her own life, find her own voice and be a beacon of light for others, rather than not allow you the full opportunity to learn from her story and how those principles can apply to you having a successful marriage as an entrepreneur. We're breaking this into a two part series. This week is part one. Hear the power of April's story hear her courage in facing the challenges and hear the peace that she has found to move forward with power in her life.

Joe Pomeroy 0:58

Hey everybody, welcome to today's episode of the Forward with Joe Pomeroy cast. I am so excited today to have on the show April Giauque. Now April has a phenomenal story of not being allowed to have her voice, discovering her voice, and now using that to share with others. And this is highly applicable as we talked about both starting a business and developing as an entrepreneur, as well as having a unified and strong marriage. So April, I'm excited to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us today.

April Giauque 1:35

Thank you so much for having me. I am excited to be here as well.

Joe Pomeroy 1:38

Awesome. All right. Well, let's dive right into it. I mean, tell us about your story because you're doing you've got two books out now. Right?

April Giauque 1:45

I do. I have two books out. One is pinpoints of light, which is the memoir of how we escaped an abusive marriage and then out of darkness which dives down deeper into how I rediscovered my voice through all The childhood experiences teenagers through this abusive marriage and then rediscovering it again when I was 43. I mean, I had a little bit but I really was like, Whoa, now I get it. So yeah, this is a whole great story.

Joe Pomeroy 2:17

Yeah, that's amazing. Because to have two books published, I mean, you're doing a book tour right now you're, you're sharing what's going on and meeting with people. That is so far from where you begin. So can you take us back a little bit and kind of give us a little bit of background to let us know where the journey started? And then what was it like for you to come through that?

April Giauque 2:38

Sure. So the journey for me, I grew up in a beautiful, wonderful family. I'm the third of five kids. My mom and dad were always very much into what I call project based learning. Right there was always a project to do. There's always something going on paint the eaves pick the apples do some canny, like we were always active and doing things And in that activity, we were always kind of together learning how to do things. And when we made mistakes, you had to learn quickly because the job still had to get done, right. So in an environment like that, I loved it. And I took the whole idea of action really to the base. And then with all of the extra energy I had, my mom was like, we need to get this girl into doing some tumbling or something. So I was putting the tumbling lessons and doing great things. I could figure out that man, I was like a cat, I could always land up right, no matter what the flips were doing on and, and all of that. Well, I had a neighbor that had an amazing trampoline. And I would always go over there and jump on the trampoline and do these great performances. And, you know, I was just in my little element in my world, and I always had a story kind of running in my head. I was, you know, as Princess I was a queen. I was going to be Mary Lou Retton. I mean whatever it was, I had all of these dreams and stuff and as I was flipping around, I just thought this is this is the best thing ever. In all of this. Like just doing all This one crazy stuff. My neighbor was watching and I didn't realize that.

April Giauque 4:05

And then through all of these kinds of things, he said, hey, let's start playing a game. And so these games would start and unbeknownst to me, it was this grooming act. And soon the grooming led right into molestation and just some really terrible things that happened that summer. Well, I share that piece in my book out of darkness because this piece of going from something where I was loved, we had activities, we were doing things all together, I then suddenly having this complete opposite experience happen. I felt a lot of shame. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know who to tell. And I just didn't say anything because of course, I was threatened and, and he blamed it on me that I was the one tempting him. I was the one showing off and so it was all my fault. did not understand how to handle any of that I was eight. What do you do as an eight year old? And when he said to keep it quiet I did because I was so afraid that I had caused all these problems and I didn't want to have all that come into play. So, like a lot of people that starts to get buried, but it awakened what I call my shame shadow. That negative voice was really like, Oh, yeah, here we go. And it just would start to pile on me to say things that I always needed to please people. I always needed to perform. And I always needed to perfect and this awful event and experience started me down this path of what I call the three poisons, perfection performing and pleasing. So like anything, I started to make everything and act to performance. So at home I was you know, happy fine doing great. My parents never knew they never suspected anything and just kind of kept going. With my life until I hit into my teenage years and thought I need some control over my life because I felt like this particular negative voice, the shame shadow would just, it was unrelenting. And no matter what I would do, I mean, I won national championships is power tumbler, I was a head cheerleader, like all of these accomplishments, if you can think about the opposite, you know, opposition, like I have all these things that I base in what I call light, positive things self worth. And then I have this extreme darkness, shame that's constantly pecking at me. And I needed to figure out a bridge to control all of this. And so I started to control it with food and became anorexic. Not out of, hey, I need to be thin, but I need to figure out a way to control my life. And that's a way I could do it. And then of course, this shame shadow was like, Oh, really, are you going to eat that much? How much are you really going to So it just started to just started to spiral down in that element as well. And I could just never get away with it. I thought every turn, I could put some control in. It always had like a one up on me if that makes sense. Now, interestingly enough, I always believed in my Heavenly Father and prayed a ton went to church all the time. Read my scriptures. And so all of those things were like filling in this big light, this this amplification, this self worth. But the other side that I kept turning to and listening to even more this darkness was just, I thought, I thought it would cease or end, but I forgot one key element, which I'll share a little bit later. And so that's just kind of this, this background of where I'm coming into. I feel a call to serve a mission and so I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I was called to serve in the California Carlsbad mission and serve there for a period of 18 months and learned so many amazing beautiful things about Christ about the atonement about sacrifice about grace and mercy. And wow, I was like, Well, I have all the tools now I'm set. So things were going really well and I, because I was emerged in so much light and so much positivity and understanding what Christ can do for other people. I watched it I, when we would share the gospel, I watched them desire the waters of baptism, like it was an amazing, incredible experience. And so that shame that shame shadow was really turned down. It was never really turned off, but it was, it was quieted a little bit more. And so I was like, I guess you could say prideful. I was like, Wow, I've got it. Figured out. Here we go again. Returning for my mission, I was like, Well, the next step is I want to get married and have kids so where's that husband? Let's go search.

April Giauque 8:55

Like a checklist. Here we go. Let's start dating out Well, I did find someone and he actually served a mission as well. And we had a lot of things in common and our goals together, really seemed to, to check off a checklist for me. He wanted the same things I did, we believed in a strong faith together. And so I thought, why I wasn't naive, I knew that trials and struggles can happen. I knew that. I just figured we would do it together as a team. And I mean, I tried to think of terrible things like what if somebody, one of the two of us gets cancer or something? And so how would we support each other? What if one of the two of us, you know, lost a business, I looked at things like that, but I didn't look at things like, what if someone starts using drugs and alcohol? What if someone starts falling into porn addiction? What if we mixed all of that with mental illness and in the rage of all of that What if abuse happens? And I don't think anything like that I didn't have any experience or exposure to anything like that to have a frame of reference to even thinking that way. So, unfortunately, all those things that I expressed, started happening within the third year, third year of our marriage, and it was because he was under a lot of distress, a lot of stress. He was his own general contractor built a lot of homes, beautiful homes, big homes. He was like, Michelangelo was to marble. He was to wood he could just the talents and skills that he had were phenomenal. And he could think it, draw a set of plans. The plans would be stamped engineered, ready, and he'd start building. He could do it all from the excavation, plumbing, electrical to the intricate wood work everything. And he did, but that's a that's a lot to do. And of course, I'm having kids left and right. And all of a sudden we have to be this provider, we have a family, we've got a growing business, and it snaps on him in a big way. And he dives into all of the things for his escape, which were drugs and alcohol pornography, because he was out of control. Now in one of the hard, hard things that I share in my first book called pinpoints of light. Since this is a memoir, there was one moment where he was just kind of at this low bottom, and he shared stories of absolute wretch and pain, from a sexual abuse that happened to him over a summer. It was around our same age, he was about seven, almost eight years old, and my heart just broke open, and I could understand a little bit more. And from that experience, I started to understand What I now call hunters and caged animals. So somebody who is who is abusive to another person, generally speaking, or what we call hunters, they search out for them. They're not narcissistic, they, they know how to play the game, they groom, they know how to bring them in, because ultimately they need control over something. And that control and power happens. It can be verbally, mentally, physically, financially, sexually, it can be all of those things combined. It could be one or the two or three, you name it, pick it, the ultimate means is that it has to do with power and control. Now, for the most part, a lot of them have something in their background. That was either an event or passed on because of generational abuse. This is what they do. And those hunters out there, they seek you out, they groom your prey and they've got you when I speak to teenagers and and groups like the dating age. We were really talk a lot about this so that we can be forewarned.

April Giauque 13:04

As a side note, I really talk a lot to the boys and to the men to say, The war is really on you guys. Because for the bulk of everything, men abuse more than any other category. Why is that? Are they so full of shame, pain hurt? What is it? So that that kind of goes off into a different topic, which will be my third book, but to bring it back into here? The point is, is that he was filled with all of these things. And he was definitely someone who I would categorize as a caged animal, in his fear of everything happening, he did not seek out to control me, but I was in the way and therefore became part of the abuse. So if you ever approached an animal that is in a caged in a cage, they are very scared. They don't know if you were there to help them or to hurt them. And so the more you approach they will eventually They're, you know, curled up there, they're in that strike position, they're going to strike out. And that's how a lot of the abuse happened with us. It was at those climactic moments of just so much stress happening, and I just wrong place wrong time. Right? It was a lot different than where we call those hunters where they, they try to trick manipulate, you know, they, they have a whole game with it. So it was different on my perspective of things. However, with all of that, it awakened mental illness in him. All of this pain, it was like it was parked right next to this mental illness monster and just fed on it. And when it would explode out there, it really exploded, was really tough. And I have five children at this point. My first three boys have autism, and I'm trying to figure out their life, trying to avoid getting the physical damage happening. financial abuse, the isolation these kinds of things just started to happen because he was so paranoid. So scared the narrative that was running in his head was, was unbelievable. And come to find out after doing some other types of research, he has schizophrenia and his business partner, his name is john John's, oh real. And it took me about six years to discover that john was not a real person. But all the money went through john. Every time I would show up to a job site, there would be a truck driving away and he said, Oh, you just miss john. I never physically met john. And a piece in pinpoints of light that I talked about in a particular chapter that I call A Beautiful Mind. We were actually watching that movie, A Beautiful Mind. And I'm just engrossed in the movie and just listening to everything and when the final ending credit rolls up has been getting off the couch and turns off the DVD player and he kind of holds the console in front of him. And he says, finally, someone understands the way I think. And I'm like, we wait, what? And I had what I call the record scratch moment, like, flash of time. And the Plinko chips are falling into place. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, it was like this running checklist just fell. And I'm like, John's not real. Oh my gosh, these things are, oh, no, like it was on fire in my brain. And I'm looking at him. And I say, Do you mean that you feel the way he does? You see people that aren't there? And he's like, what he's talking about? I was like, oh, oh, no.

April Giauque 16:55

Oh, no. He doesn't even understand what he just said. All of these things, and I did. I searched to try to find john, I searched to try to find anything about him. He's not real. It's not here. Where was the money going? Where were the investments going? They were going to anyone who saw on the street, he also created an alter ego, which he called himself, Thomas Jefferson. And let me tell you, that was a trip when he would become Thomas Jefferson in the middle of a conversation with a client. That was tough. That was tough. And so this is embarrassing. And yet at the same time, think about my background and how I was kind of groomed into this. You don't say anything, you don't talk to other people about this. You try to figure it out. You know, the Lord is with you. So we're just going to go with him. And that is fantastic. And when the Lord is trying to say, Look over there, go talk to those people. When you think that way, because we'll be exposed. This is too crazy. No one will believe us. I just kept quiet. And that's when the voice really shrunk back. And I found myself spiraling into this abyss of abuse, because I also I didn't know how to reach. There were people that reached out to us. And it was an unpredictable moments that I could not really reach back. There were times where people would say, you know, you need to do this, this abcdefg. And I would agree with them, and I would be almost ready to take that launch off, and then something would happen, which is out of my control, and I couldn't show up. And for the longest time, they were they felt offended. They felt like, Well, fine. If you don't want the support, if you don't really want this help, then I'm out. And I'm screaming in my head thinking you have no idea where what just occurred 20 minutes earlier before I could meet it safe house or before we could have escaped. And I learned right there that if I was to get out of this, this was going to be on my terms. I was going to have To build a network Now, of course, I didn't have those types of words in my brain, but I'm like, I need to build a network, I need to figure out a way to get out. And the biggest thing for us was to financially find a way to escape. Through the whole journey of everything. I was able to find a teaching position, I was able to get into a master's program, and being hired by this particular charter school. I was actually a founding parent of this charter school, and it's called spectrum Academy, and it serves anyone who's on the autism spectrum, since I have my three boys on the autism spectrum, like everything was fitting into place. But I had to convince my husband at the time that this was part of the plan, because by this point, his paranoia was at such a high level. And he knew everyone was watching him.

April Giauque 19:52

He shared an experience with us that I won't go into too many details because it's in the book, but basically, he felt that everyone was watching him, even to the point that if He would pull into a gas station when other people would pull into a gas station. Because they're getting gas. He was like, No, no, no. They're here because I'm here. So just play cool. Just play cool. Like, don't don't look at anybody, just be cool with it. And for the first three years of that I was really like, maybe this is true, I don't know. Then once I had that moment of clarity with a beautiful mind, I was just like, I have to be part of this. This game in order for me to get out. So back to the story of spectrum Academy and becoming a teacher there. He was really leery It was like, we're homeschooling we're staying here. Like, no one can put any other thing in the minds of our kids like, this is not going to happen. And so I would talk to him saying that the company, which is part of the people who he felt controlled him, this if I took the kids to the school, I could kind of be a spy and I could maybe give back information to him like I had to use all these different angles in order for us to financially have money. And I told him I wasn't getting paid. I was just doing this as a volunteer thing. And he was cool with that. And boy, I had opened up different accounts under different names like, I was ready to make my exit plan, because this was just not going to happen anymore. I knew that I could not do anything unless he actually sought help for himself, because of the illegal drugs. The the ways that he tried to escape the things that were just so dangerous. I knew this was up to me. And in pinpoints of light, I do share the events that happened on what I call that night, which were, I guess you could say every kind of thing you would think that could happen in an abusive situation. All happened within a 24 hour period. So it was like wow, that's, that's big, but we were able to escape. We had about eight minutes to get out. That's a question I asked people, what do you what do you pack if you only have eight minutes to pack? And it sets your life, you know, for the rest of your life? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna take? Because I was in that situation packing up getting things in. And I knew I had to leave the game because at this point, I was going to be a news story on the 10 O'Clock News. That's not that, hey, and in Wisconsin, we found the largest cookie kind of story. This was going to be the breaking news story. And well, that was not going to be part of my plan. So when we when we left that night, we left. We were homeless, by the homeless game for a while, jumped around to hotels to different basements. And actually, what's something so incredible is I just got back from a nine state tour for pinpoints of light and out of darkness and I was able to go back to the hotel that we first ran to and It was kind of surreal, because I stayed there.

April Giauque 23:03

So the very first time I stayed there, I was a runaway with five kids and homeless. Next time was nearly 14 years later, I'm remarried. I now have nine kids. prospering as a business owner and his teacher, a lot different circumstances. So who it was a little surreal and my sweet husband, my current husband, Scott, he opened up his mouth and met with the manager and said, I want you know what happened to my wife here almost 14 years ago. And he shared the story with him. And then we were able to do an interview. And it was just so interesting because his hotel is now what we call a safe haven, where people can go there through the the local shelter if the shelter is full. That hotel then can become an extension of the of the shelter and the shelter will pay the cost at a at a pro rate that they negotiated. That was so so cool. I hadn't No idea that any of that had really happened. And it was just great to see all of the changes of this light and of getting my voice back. Because in 2016, I got this impression that I needed to start writing the book. So we started. And then in 2017, I discovered oh this is my real voice, and how that whole story came about was, even though I had left a lot of the perfecting and the pleasing and performance behind, there was still enough of it that I was holding on to even now my second marriage, I have four more kids got nine all together. Somehow along the way I had twisted, the understanding that what you produced equal, how much you were loved. So there was always some type of condition with it. Well, this story I've shared in other platforms, but basically, I was watching Some of my favorite comedians, and they were talking about their relationship with God. So that's going to be interesting. I'm going to listen to this. And one of the comedians was talking about the first time she had a baby. And I'm like, oh, I've had nine, let's, let's move on. And I'm thinking she's gonna say something really funny. And she says, the most amazing thing that as soon as she had her baby, and it was laid on her on her chest, she had this overwhelming sense of just love for this little tiny baby boy. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, I know what that is. And then she said this. I loved him. And he hadn't even done anything. That for me, was the smack on side the head like, wait a minute, holy cow, and I felt the love of our Heavenly Father. He was like, I've been trying to tell you this whole time. I just love you because you're just you don't have to do anything. that love is here because you are light and your life breakdown moment. I'm folding socks, I've got my kids around me we've got mountains of laundry, they're like, losing it. I mean, I was a goner.

Joe Pomeroy 26:14

That's not a very good comedian. Like if their job is to make you laugh and, you know, the more like a more like a life coach or something as opposed to a comedian.

April Giauque 26:22

I had my life coach moment. They were like, are the Socks mismatched? Oh, no. It was. It was the booger cry. Snot on the sleeve.

Joe Pomeroy 26:34

Gross Cry. Super Gross Cry.

April Giauque 26:35

Gross cry for hours. It was cool. Yeah. And that was like, share your story. Ok I will. So I had started writing the story. And all of a sudden at that moment, I knew that the story split into two which is why we have pinpoints of light and out of darkness. And so that we could say, here's the here's the whole memoir escape story, because that just has to run as a story. But what I learned through all of that experience through my prior experience up to the age, I was 43. Wow, that's the out of darkness story. So it just started to tumble out. And giving people a voice has been phenomenal. And what has started to happen is that a lot of women who are in abusive situations, when they finally get out, they all have an amazing story, right? And many of them want to share it. And so what I do now in coaching is I help them kind of in their four levels of where they're at. There's a lot of them that start that I claim that they're still kind of in their victimhood, right. They're very much it's the raw bleeding story, right? This happened, then this happened, then this happened, which is okay, you got to start somewhere. And those stories are just, it's like a vomit, there's, everything's out there. And then I help coach them into what I call my survivors, and survivors they take on this pride They're like, Oh, I am a survivor. They were that label, they like a punch down anything. And their stories have so much more. I want to say hope behind it right? Because I got out and let me show you how, just like this punching boxer like they're just ready to roll. And then many of them can transform into what I call the thrivers. Now these thrivers, they share the ven story, but with without bleeding all over the place, so to speak, they share the survival piece because that sense of pride and they've earned it, but then they go into what we call this thrive. And in the thriver piece, this side, they see both perspectives. They have such light and hope at the end, and they actually want to help you get to the next level. Like survivors aren't quite there like I want to help you. They want to show you this is what I did this what I did this what I did, thrivers are like, this is what he did. And let me bring you with me. And ultimately, I don't have very many of these yet, and I think it's Part of this whole healing journey are my Victor's now Victor's share all those things that he talked about. But the big key is that they understand true forgiveness. And when they can reach that level, it takes time. This is a journey. This is nothing that's going to be Hey, in six months, I'm gonna get you to be a victor. No, it's not like that. It It takes time and when they get to that level, they have a depth of forgiveness to whatever events happened to them. And they do it in such a way that is so beautiful. And it's so unique. And it is so helpful to so many people. It is the most beautiful place ever.

April Giauque 29:45

And what I love about it and why I have the whole concept of a beacon of light and the lighthouse and everything like that is they really understand, like symbolically, they are that lighthouse. They are foundationally sound places On a rock of Christ, right? Any lighthouse, you see it is anchored on to something. It's not in the middle of a raging storm. It is anchored in a pie to shine out, right? So my victors are ones that shine out. They know how to amplify, they know how to find they know how to fuel their light. They know how to fully forgive. So they probably pray for whomever was causing them all of that grief and pain and abuse. They pray for them. But they don't get back into the, you know, into the boat so to speak, they don't get back into the rockiness of the waves and the turmoil of the storm. They stand grounded on their rock and shine out, because all are worth saving all but it's not our job to be that saving grace. It's the Savior's job. Now, all of that came about and let me just say adding those things to my second marriage. Oh, it's so much better. It's amazing. Because the acts of forgiveness Come quickly because we're all gonna mess up. We all are snappy days and whatever. But it just really builds love and how Christ really loves each one of us. And he doesn't condemn, but there's justice to be served. And I don't want to skate over that at all. My first husband is finally now in prison. He hurt nine other people before we could finally get charges to actually stick. And so people might say, Oh, you were just out for revenge and you you just wanted to see him put away. And I said, I'll tell you what I wanted to see him put away. So there wouldn't be any more victims. He would no longer damage his own soul and he To finally find a place of rest, maybe some help, his mental anguish is off the charts. But he's at least not going to damage himself or hurt others anymore. I think it's the most graceful, you know, Grace giving, merciful place that he could be. And he's going to be in treatment. And, you know, I wish him the best and hope. And we say prayers for him, because he's worth saving, I'll never forget, when I, the night we decided to leave. I had two understandings through prayer, and one was that I had been released from my calling, meaning, you know, you can go it's, it's okay. And the second was, he's my son, too. Like, I've got him. Let me let me do my thing. And I was kind of a little like, slap on the wrist like, oops, I've been kind of stepping in it a little bit trying to help him trying to save him.

April Giauque 32:57

And as couples and as marriages you want to help. I mean, if Have somebody that is sick whether it's through you know addiction or whether they have cancer diabetes you you're there to help and support and to give but not to take over and not to save big key whoops so it's always up to them. We are all given a sense of agency in this free agency is the agency of choice. They can choose these things now we can be supporters I have a whole program about supporters right. I had to learn how to how to have supporters around me to know when when to escape and true supporters are those ones that when someone is in abuse, no matter what is happening in their lives, no matter how many times that they promised Okay, we're going to meet you today and we've shared the you know, the secret password and, and you've got the backpack and we're out of here, and then they don't show. They are like first responders. They just put the bag back in the closet and wait for the next day. They don't start to put parameters on like, wow, that was a three times three strikes. They're out Supporters know what the boundary is. And they understand that the situation is out of the person's control. And so no matter how many times the person who's in abuse, even defends their abuser, and all of that stuff, think about why they're defending them. So they can save their life. Right? If they join up with the other team and like, Yeah, he's this and she's that and that, all that kind of stuff. If that ever gets back to that person, it won't end well. So they have to figure it out. The victim knows the time to leave the victim is the one in charge. supporters are there that when that victim actually runs, they know where to take them. They know how to you know, drive them someplace, they have this the bag, they've got the money, stashed, whatever. And it's not about the relationship of well, they promised they'd be here and then they, they didn't, so I'm not gonna help them anymore. No way. True supporters are like, whoops, fire started again. Let them know we're here still, even if it's another five years later, they don't leave. That was my family, my sister especially, and then strangers along the way, whom I met who helped me escape my abyss of abuse. So well, you said I should be talking, I guess it did.

Joe Pomeroy 35:24

You did 36 minutes later. Now, there's this is a hugely powerful story, and I want to speak to a personal aspect of it really quick. And then I'd like to hear the talk about how we can translate this and some specific things that I want to talk about are the three poisons and how perfection performing and pleasing can poison a business and translate that and then you hit on what I think is a huge fear and something that that I try to work towards, and that's This, you know, your first husband, he was the he was his own general contractor, he had his own business. He was doing all these things, and it was amazing at it. And the amount of stress was a, it was a really radical trigger for him. And I think that's a fear that some couples face whether it's, I don't know how I would handle the stress, or my spouse doesn't know how I would handle the stress either way that can often become an excuse to not pursue our lives and sharing our purpose and passion and the things that we can do. So I want to speak to that. First, before we dive into the business thing. I appreciate what you shared because you talked about the different stages. There was the victim, what came after the

April Giauque 36:43


Joe Pomeroy 36:44

survivor, okay, and then there's the

April Giauque 36:46


Joe Pomeroy 36:46

Thriver and then the Victor. Okay, so I realized as you were sharing that I was, I was in a business for about 10 years, with someone that I believed to be one of it. If not the best friend that I had. And it wasn't until everything took a clearly obvious clearly can't deny it. I mean literally like, in my face threatening me bullying tactic things. And then the stage was set for my exit from that. But it wasn't until those things took place that I realized the amount or the types of abuse that were taking place. I was being groomed to believe that it was impossible for me to be successful without this individual.

April Giauque 37:38


Joe Pomeroy 37:38

that if not for their

April Giauque 37:40

Full control right there. Oh my gosh

Joe Pomeroy 37:42

full control, yeah, I mean statements throughout.....

Joe Pomeroy 37:48

That's all for this week. Make sure to tune in next week and hear the remainder of April story, as well as how we take those principles and apply them into our own lives to live a life of freedom, and a life where you can share your voice with power and confidence. Remember to share this episode with friends and family and subscribe to the Forward with Joe Podcast on Apple iTunes or your favorite podcast platform. Thanks again and we'll talk to you next week.